My reply would be: "Hell no! What do you take me for, a masochist? Besides, Revelation says: 'get out of her, my people'! It doesn't say anything about returning to her, does it?"
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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19
So, are you thinking of coming back?
by kairos inthat's a crazy question.. they really mean, "do you regret your decesion to leave".. ---.
it's just an ice breaker to become nosy into one's personal life.. ---.
btw, last time i was asked this, no, everytime i'm asked this i reply with: "i'm never coming back".. they seem to hear that.. .
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17
Excusing the JW Child Abuse Scandals.
by Phizzy inmy question is prompted by a post of terry's on his own thread about a parable for jw's.
in that post terry shows how the standard jw response to any report of sex abuse within the borg is to use the "no true scotsman" fallacy.. i.e "he was not a real jw".. my question is for some time in the future, when the true, horrendous, extent of abuse within the borg is public knowledge, and the cognitive dissonance grows for jw's about this being endemic in "god's organization" for so long, how will they excuse it, or explain it, then ?.
how will they push away the obvious conclusion that jehovah must have approved of this going on, or he would have rectified it, not left it to the courts to pick up the broken pieces years later ?.
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Island Man
A case could be made that the organization is not applying the 2-witness rule properly. A case can be made that JWs are following it by the letter but they are ignoring the deeper principle behind it.
In bible times, there weren't trained police investigators and forensic scientists so the testimony of eyewitnesses was regarded as the strongest kind of evidence. So the underlying principle behind the two witness rule is that a person should not be charged without there being any corroborating evidence to back up the allegation against him.
In modern times we have trained police investigators and forensic scientists who can get at the truth of a matter without having to rely solely on eyewitness testimony. So applying the two witness rule in modern times should mean that any allegations of child abuse should be immediately reported to the police for their investigation and the findings of such a police or forensic investigation should be sufficient to serve in the role of a second witness to act judicially against the offender or to let the matter rest if the investigation can't prove it.
Therefore a case can be made that the JWs are behaving like the pharisees, following the letter of law but ignoring the deeper principle, and in the process they're bringing reproach on Jehovah by insinuating they have no choice but to follow it that way resulting in repeated abuse of innocent children in the name of obeying God. There are always potentially 2 witnesses - if the JWs immediately report every allegation to the police for them to investigate. But the JWs have in the past decided to not opt to listen to the second witness that a police investigation would provide by their deliberate refusal to report to the police.
The GB is a bunch of wicked pharisees who whitewash their ivory tower with the tears of innocent children.
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What are the Core Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by cultBgone inrecently someone asked me to define what core teachings have such a hold on jdubs that they have trouble breaking free.
trying to single out the driving force that keeps them in the borg, this is what popped into my head:.
obviously there are lots and lots of wacky things the jdubs teach/believe/pretend to believe.
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Island Man
The Core teachings that have a hold on JWs:
~ Only JWs have the true religion.
You're not really a christian if you're not a JW. It is assumed that you're in a false religion if you're not a JW. Having an approved relationship with God necessitates being a JW. To leave the JW religion is equated with leaving God. It does not matter how scriptural your religious beliefs are. It does not matter how clean your life is. As long as you're not a JW it is assumed that you're in need of "The Truth". JWs are it and everyone else is s#it! If you're not a JW you have no valid hope of surviving Armageddon. Buying into this crap causes you to be enslaved to the JW religion. You can see the many errors in the relgion and think to yourself: "where else am I to go? Who else has the truth? I'm going to stay and 'wait on Jehovah'"
~ Christ's presence started invisibly in 1914.
This is perhaps the teaching that is most unique or peculiar to JWs. The outbreak of WWI in 1914 gives JWs teh false impression that they accurately predicted the date of 1914. WWI serves as a false confirmation of an otherwise kooky doctrine. 1914 is used as the starting point of christ's presence and the last days. Coupled with the "this generation" teaching it serves to stir up fear of the imminence of the end. Wow! It's been a whole century since the last days begun. "'This generation' is well along in years - the end must be so, so, so close now! Now is not the time to slow down in the preaching work or stop serving Jehovah! I don't want to be found outside the organization and the end come suddently and catch me by surprise!"
~ The JW organization is God's spirit directed organization.
This teaching is used to imbue the organization with divine authority so that all JWs will submit to its teachings and organizational direction with the same unconditional obedience and loyalty that one is supposed to give to God himself. The direction coming from the organization is often spoken of as coming from Jehovah. To disobey the organization is to disobey Jehovah. To leave the organization is to leave Jehovah. Who would dare to spurn almight God himself?
~ The leadership of the JW organization was appointed as the faithful and discreet slave by Christ.
This teaching serves a similar function as the preceding one - it is used to imbue the Governing Body with exclusive divine authority. Disobey the Governing Body and it's as if you're disobeying Jesus and Jehovah. Refuse to accept a teaching printed in the literatue and its as if you're refusing to comply with the divine arrangement to be fed with food at the proper time by the 'faithful and discreet slave'. "The reason I don't understand this new teaching is that I just need to study the Watchtower publications more. I have not been feeding enough on the food provided by the faithful and discreet slave so my powers of spiritual discernment have gotten a little dull. It's all my fault - not that the teaching is wrong. And even if it were it would be no reason to not loyally go along with the divinely constituted 'faithful and discreet slave' arrangement - Jehovah would offer clarification in time if needed."
~ JWs are to be no part of the world.
JWs are encouraged to loathe the world. Non-JWs are religous slurred with the term "worldly". If you are not a JW then by default you are "worldy" and "bad association" to be avoided as much as is practically possible. JWs are not to express any political opinions or get involved in any social issues or controversies of the world. If slavery were still legal, JWs would not be allowed to campaign against it! JWs are not to follow fashion trends or fads - even if the fashion is not inherently immodest in and of itself. Being different to everyone else is seen as a noble end in and of itself. They refuse to use the religous jargon of other denominations - "grace", "bishop", "church", etc are words they refuse to use in relation to their own religion. They even refuse to observe holidays that do not have any religious or pagan origins. The slightest hint of historical assocation with pagan practices - however vague and however speculative - is used as an excuse to refrain from otherwise perfectly innocuous activities. They look for any and every excuse to be different by refraining from activities engaged in by the majority. Being no part of the world is taken to extreme heights of self-righteousness not seen since the time of the pharisees. All of this serves to imbue the JW with a sense of self-righteous separateness from everyone else and allows them to lump everyone else in the same derogatory category of "the world".
~ Preaching house to house is a must for all christians that are able to.
"Who else is doing the preaching work?" When a JW asks this question, know that he's referring specifically to preaching from house to house. They see this specific method of preaching as being a must for all true christians. Their feeling is, if you're not doing this specific method of preaching then you're not fulfilling the commision to preach. They make the unsubstantiated assertion that Jesus and the apostles preached from house to house. Strangely, they can't find a single scripture with a detailed description of Jesus or any of this apostles systematically going from door to door preaching to strangers (Acts 20:20 and Acts 5:42 are not conclusive, as they could just as easily be a reference to early congregation meetings which were held in the houses of various believers.). Instead the bible is filled with fairly detailed accounts of public preaching. John 18:20 even quotes Jesus himself as saying that he always preached publicly! But the deluded JW thinks to himself that JWs must be the true religion because they alone are going from house to house.
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Wasn't a letter about the NGO situation read at the Hall?
by Apognophos inokay, so i've been seeing the occasional comment here and there on the forum that some jws, even elders, do not seem to have heard about the society ever being an ngo.
am i not remembering accurately?
back when this scandal happened (2001?
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Island Man
Maybe the letter was only read in kingdom halls where publishers heard or read of the issue in the news and started question the elders about it.
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The expression 'need greaters'. Anyone else heard this?
by jambon1 inmy wife gets emails from someone who is serving in another country.. he keeps on referring to brothers/sisters who are 'need greaters'.. if they are actually using this expression then i have to say that it is the stupidest 'title' that they have ever dreamed up.
so full of their own self importance.. need greaters?..............
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Island Man
A "need greater" is a dub who has moved to serve where the need is greater (hence the derivation of the term). True story: the very first time I heard the expression was in private conversation with a brother. At the time I thought I heard "knee grater" and that the brother was cynically referring to uptight, authoritarian brothers in positions of responsibility - brothers who drive you like a slave, have you figuratively on your knees scrubbing the floor thus causing your knees to be grated.
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Double-life, sounds like a prison sentence....or maybe not?
by sparrowdown inquestion: do you think the "double-lifers" have the best of both worlds?.
just asking, because i have wondered, if i had an outlet to express my utter.
disgust and general dissatisfaction with wt teachings and cong-life while i. was still in, ie on forums etc, maybe i would never have left.. just a thought, anyone else have any?.
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Island Man
The stress alone of knowing TTATT and not being able to freely talk about it causes a lot more physical issues than I would have anticipated.
It harms your physical health? Really?
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What are you NOT allowed to say as a Jehovahs Witness?
by The Quiet One in"one of the bible study was listening and singing the song by jason mraz titled lucky with the chorus going like this;.
quote.
'i'm lucky i'm in love with my best friend.. lucky to have been where i have been.. lucky to be coming home again.. lucky we're in love in every way.. lucky to have stayed where we have stayed.. lucky to be coming home someday..'.
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Island Man
But the word "whore" is perfectly acceptable in the Revelation Climax Book.
I swear to you all, the next JW I'm lucky enough to hear criticizing the use of some word is going to get a good bollocking from me! I'm going to look him/her square in the eyes and say:
"Oh my God! Really?! Is that the new low of petty self-righteousness that we're stooping to now?! I wish you good luck in your attempt at filling the shoes of the Pharisees!"
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How did you feel when you got baptised? Seriously....
by stuckinarut2 inso recently, several over-righteous ones in the cong were discussing "how amazing it felt when they got baptised".
statements like "how awesome did it feel as you got raised back out of the water?!".
or the classic "i felt so close to jehovah as i came out of the pool"!.
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Island Man
I've heard an ex-JW once say that he felt like someone's trophy - his bible teacher's trophy. And to make matters worse, they had to dunk him twice because the first time a tiny piece of his body didn't go all the way under. What's up with that? Is Jehovah and Jesus looking down legalistically and saying: 'Oh look his nose didn't go all the way under, so that means he's technically not baptised. That's one more to be destroyed at Armageddon, mwhaa ha ha ha!'
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Why we need God
by Coded Logic inif there was no god we would not have an objective standard to tell the difference between red from blue.
who would determine what is red and what is blue if there was no god?
it would be chaos!
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Island Man
But Coded Logic, how could we possibly know that the enslavement and genocide of non-believers is a good thing, if God didn't condone and command it?
And how could we possibly know to shun our own religiously defecting sons and daughters, but for sacred writ?
So we do need God to tell us the difference between good and bad, less our imperfect conscience should move us to omit doing the good which our imperfect heart tells us is bad.
You see, only through revelation from a God would we ever know that shunning religous apostates is a good thing - an act of love. How are people supposed to know to do do such loving acts if there's no God to reveal to them that such acts are good?
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How would YOU like to die - At home with your family, or in Hospital with Strangers
by fulltimestudent ina big decision no one wants to make, but would you have a preference?.
and, i guess it may depend on what kind of relationship you have with your family.. .
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Island Man
Healthcare Power of Attorney, sorry it is on google.
And here I thought the HC stood for Hospice Care